i just heard this a few minutes ago by a jw friend who is still an elder in my old hall.
the kingdom hall i used to attend and my mom still attends was paid off many years ago and serves about 6 congregations.
one of the english congregations has a lot of financially well of members.
CalebInFloroda
Marvelous, John, just marvelous! If only more had access to you in situations like these!
how much was the ransom?
gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.
gods gift required more.
If memory serve me right wasn't Jesus pretty much beaten to a pulp by the Romans before being crucified? How can Jesus be a sacrifice in such a condition in light of Deuteronomy 17.1:
You shall not sacrifice to the Lord your God an ox or a sheep that has any defect of a serious kind, for that is abhorrent to the Lord your God.
OMG Caleb, You just keep coming. If the governing body ever saw you, they would run, run, run.
i just heard this a few minutes ago by a jw friend who is still an elder in my old hall.
the kingdom hall i used to attend and my mom still attends was paid off many years ago and serves about 6 congregations.
one of the english congregations has a lot of financially well of members.
I just heard this a few minutes ago by a JW friend who is still an elder in my old hall.
The Kingdom Hall I used to attend and my mom still attends was paid off many years ago and serves about 6 congregations. One of the English congregations has a lot of financially well of members. Right before the WT asked all the congregations to hand over all the money, the well -off congregation had over $100,000 in their savings account and the other English congregation had $40,000 in their savings.The others are Spanish and they also had a substantial amount but I’m not privy to how much each congregation had.
They already had the plans and approval of the former RBC to remodel the Kingdom Hall, parking lot, and remote control fence. Needless to say they were upset when the WT asked for all the money to be sent to them. The CO assured them that since they have saved more than enough for a remodeling, all they had to do is ask Headquarters for a loan and it would not be a problem. Well it was a problem, they were denied.
So the elders of one English congregation took it upon themselves to open a secret savings account at the bank and save to remodel their own hall. They view it, not as being rebellious but as something personal they wanted to do on their own. And there was no instructions saying they couldn’t do that. So they saved up to $70,000.
When the Circuit overseer visited the Kingdom Hall, one of the Elders is exactly like that character played by Charlie Day, in the movie Horrible Bosses who always spills the beans. He just can’t keep his mouth shut. So when everyone was at coffee break with the CO, he blurts out something like, “Were gonna have a New Hall”
Everyone just shuts up. The CO starts asking him, “What are you talking about” the elder tries to evade the question but the CO keeps drilling him and drilling him until finally the elder breaks and tells the CO they’ve been saving money to remodel the Hall. The CO has a fit and starts to investigate and discovers the elders set up a separate account to remodel the hall and they argue all week long. The elders feel this has nothing to do with the Society since it is a personal account they set up on their own and the CO feels they can’t do that since it is for God’s Organization and some of the sheep contributed to the fund and they are working apart from it. They call the Watchtower for direction and the direction comes back which says;
“Send all the Money to the Watchtower”
As a result of this two elders have stepped down and not returned to the meetings but the wives and children are still attending. So now those families are being broken up and the congregation still can’t remodel the Kingdom hall.
To add insult to injury the CO recommended that since the congregation could afford to save $70,000 so quickly, then it would only be appropriate to raise the monthly contribution that is sent to the Society by another $1000 a month.
The problem is that since that happened a few months ago the congregation has not been able to collect even the previous amount before the $1000 was added by the CO. I believe the members are very upset and many are not contributing anymore. The elders and MS are being asked every month to dig deep into their pockets to make up for the deficit.
Which is why the elder called me, he was thinking of stepping down as an elder because the stress is too much and he wanted to know what it was like when you step down.
I told him what it was like. No elder’s meetings, no judicial meetings at night that last till midnight, no elders meeting after the conventions, no CO meetings, no shepherding calls to worry about, no Sunday talks to prepare, no out of town elder’s schools to prepare. No special meetings to go to. No getting chewed out by the CO. No having to deal with stupid elders.
And I went on and on till his face started turning red with anger. I thought for a while he was getting mad at me, but then he said, “That’s it, I'm turning in my resignation this Thursday”
how much was the ransom?
gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.
gods gift required more.
Either the concept of Original Sin or inheriting sin from Adam (or Eve) is true or the words of Ezekiel are true, but not both. Either G-d visits the sins of parents upon their children, contradicting the words of Ezekiel, or the story of Adam and Eve have to be interpreted in the light of Ezekiel 18.
Good point Caleb!
Something is just not right with the idea of some man having to die a horrendous death for billions and billions of men, women and children to be forgiven. If that was really the case then Jesus could just have died in his sleep and the ransom would have been paid.
when i began formal study of religion and biblical analysis it was like peeling off layer after layer of dark matter, sticky and putrid that had stuck over my eyes and ears and mouth.
i learned that under the watchtower one only builds a widening gap between yourself and the world of biblical academia and scholars.
i used to think i knew a lot because i learned to quote a few scholars or lexicons as a witness.
i think it would.
instantly.
in fact, i hope one day soon that we somehow encounter extraterrestrial life because i think there would be a wholesale rejection of the bible and any/all religious institutions.
The JWs for sure, as well as all other religions would spin it off as New Light or a New Revelation from God’s as his overall purpose.
(1 Corinthians 2:9) . . .But just as it is written: “Eye has not seen and ear has not heard, neither have there been conceived in the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love him. . .
how much was the ransom?
gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.
gods gift required more.
Interesting OP. But there is a far deeper problem with the ransom issue. Adam did not introduce sin into the world. Eve did!
So to solve the issue, they just ignored the fact that it was actually Eve who sinned first, and pinned the introduction of sin on her male accomplice, Adam.
But that Eve introduced sin into the world is without dispute when you read Genesis.
But the patriarchal misogynistic society in which christianity was born, could not stomach the thought of a woman having such a prominent role.
That would actually explain a lot of other things like Paul’s strong convictions that Women were not allowed to teach in the congregation. Paul said that women could be easily deceived but not the men. Where does it say in Genesis that Adam was not deceived? For all we know Eve made an apple pie and gave him a piece and he was totally deceived. And if Paul can make up the story of Adam not being deceived, then I can make up the story of an apple being the forbidden fruit.
(1 Timothy 2:14) . . .Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and came to be in transgression. . .
how much was the ransom?
gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.
gods gift required more.
cofty
He decided: the blood of a perfect human life
Pictures can speak a thousand words Cofty.
I saw the first picture,
Then the second one,
Case closed.
when i began formal study of religion and biblical analysis it was like peeling off layer after layer of dark matter, sticky and putrid that had stuck over my eyes and ears and mouth.
i learned that under the watchtower one only builds a widening gap between yourself and the world of biblical academia and scholars.
i used to think i knew a lot because i learned to quote a few scholars or lexicons as a witness.
The Protestant Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice (faith).
It should be noted that neither Judaism nor Catholicism/Orthodox Christianity can adopt this belief since their religious systems were alive and well before the Biblical texts were written
Caleb, are you saying Catholicism existed before the B.C. Era?
when i began formal study of religion and biblical analysis it was like peeling off layer after layer of dark matter, sticky and putrid that had stuck over my eyes and ears and mouth.
i learned that under the watchtower one only builds a widening gap between yourself and the world of biblical academia and scholars.
i used to think i knew a lot because i learned to quote a few scholars or lexicons as a witness.
Bonsai
Very informative thread! Although I've lost all faith, I can't call myself an atheist because it's threads like this that prove to me that I've learned just enough to know that I don't really know anything at all. It makes me so sad that in this small lifespan that I have, I won't have the time to figure everything out.
Hey Bonsai, who gave you permission to take those words out of my head, that is exactly how I feel. I couldn't have said it any better.
